Topic: "Defining Your Style"
(...or "Staying True to Yourself in Your Photography")

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LisaNeal:: hi Eddie
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LisaNeal:: Hi Sandray and Dorothy
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Hey Eddie...how are you?
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Hi Lisa
sandra:: Hi how is everyone evening
LisaNeal:: Glad to see the sleep fairies didn't take off with you tonight
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hey Dorothy, Lisa, Sandra. I'm good. Stayed awake this time!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I see that
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Fine Sandra.
LisaNeal:: I'm glad -- selfishly glad
sandra:: You know a nap sounds really good
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I sometimes forget you're on eastern time, Eddie.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: We won't keep you TOO long tonight.
LisaNeal:: I slept through Dave's chat last night . . .
Eddie Bonfigli:: Yes, naps always take on a specialness at this time of year.
sandra:: So what are we talking about tonight? how to design our style
LisaNeal:: Hey Dorothy -- how do you like the extreme temp drop today?
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LisaNeal:: Welcome Julie
sandra:: hi julie
Julie:: hi everyone
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hi Julie.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...REAL great. We had the A/C on yesterday.
sandra:: I love this cold weather
LisaNeal:: This was nuts -- I froze putting the garbage out this morning -- what happen to the 75+ degree weather from yesterday!
sandra:: this is the first fall I remember with such beautiful colors
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I hear we're supposed to be in the upper 30's tomorrow night here on the 'northshore'.
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LisaNeal:: hi lalac
LisaNeal:: I have my fireplace ready and waiting!
sandra:: Does people in LA even have coats
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: This is why everyone stays sick here.
LisaNeal:: won't be that cold south of the lake
LisaNeal:: No Sandra -- we really don't use coats much
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Sandra...you'd be surprised at what cold air and high humidity can cut through.
lalac:: hi ya'll
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: DEFINITELY own a coat here.
Julie:: hi lala
LisaNeal:: but you're north of the lake Dorothy
Eddie Bonfigli:: Anyone have the dictionary definition of style? It would be interesting to know its roots, its origin.
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Yea...it makes a difference oddly enough.
BradV:: Hi Everyone
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LisaNeal:: Hi Melissa
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hey Brad!
LisaNeal:: Hi Brad
Just Hatched Photography:: Hello
LisaNeal:: anyone getting a dictionary -- if not, I'll get mine
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lalac:: I am..
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Style: the manner in which something is done, expressed or performed.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That was just read to me by Bobby from the dictionary.
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sandra:: to make or design in accord with prevailing mode in which something is styled
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lalac:: a distinctive manner of
sandra:: to represent or design
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Here's the second half: the combination of distinctive literary and artistic features of expression, execution or performance....
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: characterizing a particular person, group, school or era.
LisaNeal:: a particular kind, sort, or type, as with reference to form, appearance, or character
Eddie Bonfigli:: Keep it coming, like to know this stuff.
lalac:: distinctive manner of expression...
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sandra:: manor or method of
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lalac:: I think we all do have a distinctive manner of expression.....
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: A quality of imagination and individuality, expressed in ones actions and tastes.
LisaNeal:: Melissa, you there?
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hmm, I like the way that last sounds .
Just Hatched Photography:: yes, I'm back
Eddie Bonfigli:: Individuality.
LisaNeal:: just checking
sandra:: distinctive
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That was all out of Websters II edition.
sandra:: hands not working
LisaNeal:: I agree Eddie -- that one hits it
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Eddie Bonfigli:: Something like: Individuality expressed.
Eddie Bonfigli:: equals style.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I felt like I used to have more of a style BEFORE I got into the technicality of photography, Eddie.
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: But now I hear that from people. That I have a particular style. Never heard that before.
Eddie Bonfigli:: That's interesting, Dorothy. I think I know what you mean.
sandra:: I feel my is still changing after all of these years
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lalac:: I think your style shows through when you don't think about what your style is....
sandra:: For one shooting what you love
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala, I think about it more now...I NEVER thought about it before.
briteideasphoto:: hello all and good evening!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Sandra, I do think it's possible for one's "style" to be constantly evolving, or heading toward a more defined state.
lalac:: I had a frame shop tell me that they knew they framed some of my work..and went and found customers name.. (I hadn't put my name on the shots)...they said they could "just tell"...
lalac:: huge compliment to me... I think..
cmorganf64:: Hello all. Im new to the forum and its my first chat. Glad to be here and hope to learn alot!
sandra:: I think copying someone style is what most photographers do when they are learning and then you change to what you do
Just Hatched Photography:: How do you develop to the point where you create vs. imitate??? In the beginning it's about absorbing from diff aspects...wondering when my 'style' will come out
Eddie Bonfigli:: Lalac, that's great!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Is it more of a 'look' you think or what each person 'sees' in your work that creates the 'style'?
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LisaNeal:: there is something in all of us that pulls us towards certain aspects of what we like to see in a photo -- we might now recognize it while we're creating the portrait - but it shows when we decide which proofs to show
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: JHP, good question.
briteideasphoto:: my frustration is that since I'm just starting I have a lot of people (family) trying to tell me what my style "should" be and it isn't always what I see myself moving towards
lalac:: I agree...it is not something you do intentionally... it shows in your work...
sandra:: You could have several photographers shooting the same seen or portrait and they all look different but all done well
cmorganf64:: I started to "imitate" a local photographer, but quickly determined that I couldnt. just didnt feel right.
lalac:: briteideas... don't listen..hahaha...
sandra:: you just end up shooting or looking at something a special way
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I know the 'look' I'm going after. I used to look, read and study the photographers whos work I admired. I always think about the 'look' that I love and try to create my own image from that.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Sandra, yes, I agree. And I don't think a photog starting out has to judge him/herself negatively for trying to emulate...eventually, like you said, the individuals own expression does come thru. Might take a while.
briteideasphoto:: but for new people, imitating is the best way of learning what works and doesn't for you
sandra:: its what you think looks good
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: The photographers whos work inspires me...I think that's what I mean.
lalac:: cmorgan ... don't copy..just do... one book said "fake it til you make it"... well do what you want and make that your style
sandra:: i think once you know your equipment your sense or eye comes
cmorganf64:: thats what I did. I have a totally diff look than those around me. Its feels good now!!
lalac:: well.. if you are copying what you personally love...then that is a huge compliment but yours will be different anyway...and YOURS!
briteideasphoto:: lala I think they're starting to get the idea that I don't care what they think I should do, I'm going to do what I want!
sandra:: and over the years it will change
Eddie Bonfigli:: I like that, Sandra. "It's what you think looks good". Great!
briteideasphoto:: but they still want free photos :P
Eddie Bonfigli:: Good for you, Brite! Very daring.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie...the sad part is that what I thought 'looked' good to me and I was happy with, was usually shot down in flames for the lack of technicality.
lalac:: oh yeah, I am constantly buzzing with different ideas..but still go back to images I personally like .. such as super tight crops and shots that don't show the childs face just the situation at the time.
briteideasphoto:: most of them have griped about B&W but then when they see it in print they love it
sandra:: i was trained as a news journalist and most of my works looks like that
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: How flawless is Julia Margaret Cameron's work. Yet look how effective and moving her photography is.
sandra:: what changes is film paper and new techniques that you add to your arsenal of style
Eddie Bonfigli:: Dorothy, hmm, what did you think of the technical part of your expression? Were you okay with it?
lalac:: isn't a true artist..true to themselves???
Just Hatched Photography:: Ok, how do you get either the confidence to take over a session? I know what I would like to do but I've got parents yelling at kids to smile behind me..I hate that but haven't been able to stop it.
sandra:: my technical i think has gotten worse...or sloppy
cmorganf64:: for me, my switch to digital has really freed my creativity, no film cost to hinder me!!!
snapit:: I'm not sure what my style is, but I realized when I was photographing children this weekend, it's just best to let them do what they want to do. Looking at the proofs these kids had a style of their own . I think your style may change depending on your subjects.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie, many times I was elated with expressions I caught on people and children years ago. I maybe wasn't thrilled with the lighting or 'cropping' in camera correctly, but many times yes.
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lalac:: just hatched... I send the parents away!!! sometimes far away or we walk away and make them sit and stay!
sandra:: getting comfortable is just shoot more and with each session you will learn something
briteideasphoto:: lol JHP, I think parents are sometimes the biggest hindrance to a good shoot. get rid of 'em!
Just Hatched Photography:: I agree snapit...that's what I want to doQ
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Then when I started visiting sites in the cyber world...you REALLY feel like you're starting from the bottom at times. It's a double edge.
Just Hatched Photography:: AMEN Brite!
cmorganf64:: snapit.thats what I do, let it happen.the parents are always surprised to see the wonderful shots that "just happened" without them telling the kids what to do
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snapit:: I'm often surprised when I see my own shots!
Just Hatched Photography:: I spent all weekend in DC doing 6 shoots of kids...the BEST one was where the mom left us alone.
sandra:: so what is everyones style if you have to define it??
lalac:: I tell parents I come to the shoot with no agenda...and if they want a specific thing they need to tell me ..because I shoot what is happening.... I dont' make it happen!
briteideasphoto:: i hate it when the kids get so tense and then the mom gets worse, if they'd just back off and let the kid be they would get fabulous pics, but sometimes they don't trust you!
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: There are so many sides to photography...technically there are correct ways to photograph. But the forum can be an example of 'when is it someones art and when is it needing change?
sandra:: mine is more of a journalist/street style
cmorganf64:: formal-journalistic?!?!?! for me
snapit:: How important are the technical aspects if the photograph is visually pleasing?
briteideasphoto:: hmmm. i don't know that i have a style yet
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sandra:: snapit i think very important
sandra:: but not always sometimes the expression tells all
lalac:: well...some of the magazines I read show images I would never show... and some of the books I have bought.. and I think... hmmmm these are the experts??? but, you have to be happy with what you do.
Julie:: I am still working on a definition - I know I like things simple and with feeling - hard to get when clients want a group shot of 15 relatives! LOL
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dmireles2:: Hi all
sandra:: sometimes you have to make money and do what the client wants
lalac:: hiya.
Julie:: thats where the line between my style and business is complicated
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hey Delano, Dave!
cmorganf64:: I dont think its important. (technical aspects) I believe in technically correct images, but correct for who, just me?
dmireles2:: hey eddie
PosNeg:: Hi Ed
LisaNeal:: Hey Dave -- I can't believe I slept through your chat last night :( -- I was sick
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That's what I've always been curious about...especially lately. Is it an umbrella to call everything 'art' even if it may not look good to some? Or are you suppressing ones creativity?
PosNeg:: That interesting huh?
Just Hatched Photography:: I want to get to the point where I run the shoot, don't feel like that is happening lately.
Julie:: me either!!
sandra:: it will come
LisaNeal:: Dorothy -- you can't please everyone -- no two people see things the same way
sandra:: exactly
cmorganf64:: I shoot alot of wet-plate images and strive for technically correct images, but look at Sally Man's images on wet-plate.technically they are worthless to me, but somebody pays alot more for hers than for mine!!!
lalac:: you have to conquer your own nerves and you will control it..
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala...my daughter just got a high end fashion magazine the other day. You should have SEEN all the overexposed shots.
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Yet they see it (obviously) differently. I thought it was terrible work.
lalac:: I would...fashion magazines are very strange.
PosNeg:: how so lalac?
Eddie Bonfigli:: Nancy, I think your question is a good one.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...I know. I used to not be as self conscious about my work as I am now. But I think I'm starting to get alot more comfortable where I'm at and maintain that attitude.
Just Hatched Photography:: and not very realistic
snapit:: It is so hard to follow all of the technical rules and the rule of thirds when you are photographing kids. Things are moving sooo fast! Thanks Eddie!
lalac:: very art ..edgy...maybe?!
PosNeg:: art directors are a weird breed lalac
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Ditto, Dave.
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sandra:: all of the old rules seem to have been bent such as thirds it is any thing goes\
lalac:: I am sure they want eyecatching and nervy..but some are just stupid to me...images that is.
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PosNeg:: Xerox Dorothy
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Ouch Dave!!!
Dorothy Blum Cooper::
snapit:: It's very hard not too be influenced by what is out there on billboards and in magazines. You start to compare yourself to what you are seeing.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I've always been curious as to 'who' set the rules. Look at wedding photography. My in-laws have an absolutely stunning documented wedding from the early 50's.
Just Hatched Photography:: So, bottom line...who is it more important to please? The client or our own sense of what we like? You can't always do both...or can you?
cmorganf64:: has anyone else that has switched to digital felt a creative release, or is it just me?
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Now because a certain photography 'set standards', most follow. If you DON'T follow those 'rules', the bride and groom feel 'cheated'.
Eddie Bonfigli:: I think you should let the "rules" of photography, or composition, etc., PULL you to using them, and you shouldn't PUSH them on yourself. In other words, try out the rules, and see if you take to them naturally, and see if it gets incorporated into your style easily. Something like the rule of thirds IS universal, but you shouldn't use it if you simply pasting it into your work. It should flow out of you naturally. My opinion.
PosNeg:: snapit, are you striving to shoot for billboards and magazines?
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LisaNeal:: I think clients will chose you as their photog if they like your style -
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That's what I want to know...when do you break from the rules and NOT worry about the technical side to your art in photography?
sandra:: yes
LisaNeal:: just starting out though -- they just want something cheap
snapit:: HA HA Dave!
cmorganf64:: now I feel as if I can try new things........over expose/underexpose, slow flash, strobe, etc and try the "funky" stuff that gets peoples attention
PosNeg:: maybe your clients are hiring based on personality and ease of doing business too
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...I'm fortunate that the clients I have call just for that reason. They've seen my work and know my 'style'.
PosNeg:: snapit, that was a serious question I asked
Just Hatched Photography:: That drives me nuts...people like what I do but want to know why I charge more than Walmart...and trust me...I don't charge THAT much more!
sandra:: i think most clients do that
sandra:: then theres the ones even when they se your style want another
PosNeg:: See if they can get an appointment with the owner of Walmart
Julie:: People tell me they like me images because they are different than walmart, and then at the shoot, they want posed up walmart shots!! Go figure
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Sandra, that's when I refer them to another photographer. I never change how I shoot to please someone else.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I always ask them up front if they've actually seen my work.
sandra:: you can stand firm on your style say like black and white no color
snapit:: Sorry Dave, I thought you were joking. I just meant that I see photos on my way to work all of the time on billboards etc. (overexposed etc. ) and I wonder if that's what is in?
Just Hatched Photography:: Julie...totally know what you mean!
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: It really helps if they know it before they hire you...your 'style' that is.
cmorganf64:: I have clients that use to use the other local photographer bring me images that he shot and asks me to create the same look......I refuse the job
Eddie Bonfigli:: Dorothy, I think we are all really lucky in this age......I don't think there has ever been a time when rules didn't matter more. Just look through fashion magazines and see all the rules that are broken.....focus, composition, lighting. Whether you can make breaking the rules work for clients is another story. I think it can be done.
Julie:: But they don't always tell me this part till I get there!
sandra:: we all should almost interview our clients
Julie:: To late to turn it down!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I would too, Chris. You don't want the rep of being a gimmick photographer.
lalac:: I really haven't had anyone ask for "someone elses style"...since I am totally on location and natural light..I control the shots ..and in the studio you are much more confined
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lalac:: and I love the creativity I have with the digital world
sandra:: and be willing to turn them down like dorothy said
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Sandra, in a way...I do.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Interview.
lalac:: I interview also...confirm it is not a large group...etc, etc.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: It may sound arrogant, but I don't want to be like the other photographers here...I think that's what can set you apart from the rest.
PosNeg:: true dorothy
sandra:: very true
lalac:: Im with you dbc...
sandra:: that is when your style or look comes out
PosNeg:: and there's alot more about you that can be different than just style that can attract clients
sandra:: personality
lalac:: do tell...???
Eddie Bonfigli:: Most all of you are so ahead of the game...hearing you say that you'd turn down jobs if they asked you to do another's style. haha. When I first started out, I would be so flexible for the client. I cringe about that now.
lalac:: I know my biggest selling point... I work almost totally on referrals...and I actually get to know my clients.
lalac:: they tell me things, become somewhat friends..if that makes sense...
sandra:: Eddie me to but that was a long time ago
Julie:: Eddie thats where I am now! Accepting work just to get it then regretting it
dmireles2:: Eddie so how did you get to the style that you shoot now?
Julie:: Need to kick myself in the behind sometimes
sandra:: sometimes we all have to shoot it all
Just Hatched Photography:: I'm using the new year and the last six months experience to change a lot of things. I thought I couldn't afford to turn down a job...now I realize there are jobs I can't afford to do.
snapit:: Eddie, unfortunately, I was in that place this weekend, I'm really new at this, but learning.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Delano, I don't know how to answer your question, but it has something to do with what Sandra said a few minutes ago.....about shooting what looks good to you.
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lalac:: jhp..I now refuse (have no free appointment times that are convenient) for high maintenance people that I know...
dmireles2:: I really admire your work, eddie
Eddie Bonfigli:: I think we each have in our heads an idea of the ideal photograph......
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I think ones style is determined simply by how you 'see' things. You know the glass half full, half empty theory.
Just Hatched Photography:: The other thing I've learned is not to give anything away...people are never satisfied and always feel they are entitled to more.
sandra:: attitude is all lot of it
Eddie Bonfigli:: Thanks Delano.
dmireles2:: i think its the simplicity that it conveys
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Give a group of children a crayon, ask them to draw balloons or flowers and look at how many different varieties you get in the end.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Interpretation.
dmireles2:: none of your shots seem contrived
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sandra:: that is what we have to do Dorothy with each session
PosNeg:: and isn't that what clients are paying for...our interpretation?
sandra:: yes dave
sandra:: they are paying for our eye
lalac:: yep...they don't want their own snapshots...they want what we see... they would never photograph what we see...they just don't get it.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Sandra...exactly.
sandra:: and we all see things so differently
snapit:: True Dave, they see samples of our work and hire us, so they should let us do our job,
sandra:: but remember they also have an agenda
PosNeg:: and they will if you set the tone
Just Hatched Photography:: But they don't always do that!
LisaNeal:: sandra --- well said -- I think that is why opinion varies so much in the forum when people post images that are raw or manipulated
Just Hatched Photography:: That's what I'm talking about...getting to the point where I set the tone.
PosNeg:: i know i shoot different stuff than most of you, but i always encourage teamwork with my clients...they like being involved, but you also need to shoot YOUR interpretation as well
sandra:: i was 100% against digital 6 months ago but now I'm sort of considering it
sandra:: i think most of us are still evolving
lalac:: sandra...I was leaning to medium format..and changed my mind... oh how glad I am... I love my s1
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...I think what you said is interesting. That's where you say...who's doing it right and who's not? Is there a right and wrong? I think (for me anyway), I wanted to get to a point where I could achieve the lighting similar to Eddie and Kathryn's style.
PosNeg:: digital has added to the excitement of image creation
sandra:: i still can't give up film i like the feel of it and the different grains and i think now that is my style
lalac:: I think if what you are doing is pleasing you and your clients... you are a winner.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie, you remember my posts where I'd say 'let me have it'? You all did...I think I've learned quite a bit from you. That's where you can get the 'right and wrong'. From the photographer or art you are attempting to achieve.
Just Hatched Photography:: I don't think I would do this if I weren't digital...too costly...plus I love the creation end and control over an image I have.
PosNeg:: thats the bottom line, isn't it lalac?
sandra:: yes
Eddie Bonfigli:: Delano, you hit in on the head....it's been a goal of mine to have the photographs not look contrived.
lalac:: I recently put my portrait of some children next to a "well know" photographer in town at a silent auction... I did a donation also... at first I was intimidated... (I know my faults and lack of knowledge)
LisaNeal:: we ask for opinions on our photos in the forum but no one knows exactly what we're trying to achieve --- therefore, its really not fair to ask for opinions unless we set the range and criteria
Eddie Bonfigli:: Yes, D, that's a great quality of yours. I'll try to remember to "let you have it"!
sandra:: you learn so much more from another photographers view of your work
PosNeg:: that depends sandra
lalac:: but, I realized as people commented ..positively thank goodness.... that we are different...hers are contrived and posed...in studio...mine aren't
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie...you all DID let me 'have it'. I remember. But that's exactly what I wanted.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Good point Lisa.
sandra:: what i mean we don;t learn as mush when all you get is how great the work is you learn from your bad shots
lalac:: isn't critiquing actually subjective...it is our own opinion...
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PosNeg:: you have to take everyones critique for what it's worth....based on THEIR work, their style, and what they do
sandra:: just like your style it is very subjective
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...(not to cut anyone out on this) but when I started visiting the forum a couple of years ago, there were only a handful of photographers.
sandra:: yes dave thats right
lalac:: However, I would rather have someones true opinion, ideas, negative comments than no comment or simply kindness
Julie:: but I can appreciate someone elses work, even if different than mine, and offer an opinion
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: We all shot pretty much that same...so the critiques and corrections were well received.
PosNeg:: critiquing is basically just opinions...some will make sense, others won't
Julie:: it doesn't have to be in line with my own approach
LisaNeal:: I've been watching the member count increase rapidly on the forum
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: With the diversity now, you're not sure what others are wanting.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Yes, Sandra, Lala...so true. I bet lots of very stylish photogs have gotten where they are because they never listened to their critiquers!
Christy:: Hello all, what's tonight's topic?
sandra:: style
lalac:: dbc.. I agree..and we have much more posing portraits than we did...I used to think it was more a candid type of photography on ilp...but there is a need for both types.
sandra:: it seems to have blended
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Christy:: My style is whatever earns the GREEN merits
lalac:: green stamps?
sandra:: 444
lalac:: they still have those?
sandra:: $$$ SORRY
dmireles2:: LOL Christy!
lalac:: ha~
Christy:: LOL
sandra:: WE ALL HAVE TO MAKE A LIVING
sandra:: i didn't mean to yell
PosNeg:: lol
PosNeg:: my neighbors heard that
Christy:: good one Dave
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala...absolutely. I guess I'm different in that I like to look and observe what appeals to me. If it doesn't appeal to me, I usually can't comment. I wouldn't be giving an honest opinion. It's like clothing. There are thousands of styles. Doesn't mean I want to go look in the teen section. I go to the things that catch my interest. I guess that's how I am in photography.
sandra:: i'll be quiet
dmireles2:: :-)
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Fickled!!
lalac:: I agree totally... I am not into props and posing...but...
PosNeg:: and thats what makes you strive to be better DBC
lalac:: that said..some catch my eye and make me want to go by the kids some cute hats to play with.
sandra:: not all props are bad
lalac:: but I would rather the kids bring their own things so their personality shows..with their own expression..
Christy:: Me too lala
sandra:: but nothing that tales over the image
lalac:: no..I wasn't saying props are bad...
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sandra:: Oh My God I Can't Type
Christy:: Hey A...glad you could join
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: No indeed...props are fine. Just not MY thing.
lalac:: I have two red sand pails in my trunk..that I drag out at the beach occasionally...so guilty as charged~!~~
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Hi Alycia.
sandra:: me neither DBC
dmireles2:: sandra: voice recognition...it's the wave of the future
lalac:: they get the small ones to sit still at the beach if they are crazy babies
alycia:: hi everyone
sandra:: I'm from Texas I can't speak well either
PosNeg:: hi aly
sandra:: that twang
dmireles2:: Hey! I'm in Texas -- y'all
LisaNeal:: lol@ lalac -- Dorothy and I keep white shrimper's boots in our trunks for shoots! LOL
alycia:: hey christy (the great *S*), dorothy and dave ...
Christy:: I have that Oklahoma twang..it's all good
alycia:: so have yall been talking about defining a style?
Audra6:: Question: I'm just starting out...those of you that do in studio and don't want posed shots...what do you tell the child to do? Do you just sit back with your camera and wait?
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lisa...that's funny!!!!!!!!!
sandra:: or mosquito repellent
alycia:: audra...i try to tell them i'm just testing my lights or camera...then ask them about something...school, friends...
lalac:: hey..I like shrimper boots..we call them Bayou la Batre Nikes... that is a local shrimping town
alycia:: for very young, i use blocks or legos and let them build.
Christy:: funny...that's what I say
LisaNeal:: lol sandra --- forgot about out West Nile bugs
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That's our state bird...
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I mean bug.
PosNeg:: audra..when i shoot children, i have about a 20 minute conversation with them and get all of the expressions I need
Christy:: just relax. I'm just looking through my camera to see if I can see you:) I'll let you know when I'm ready.
Audra6:: Well Alycia, that's what I have been doing...just talking to them.
lalac:: alycia.. yep about our style, and how we arrived, change, etc. etc.
Just Hatched Photography:: what about toddlers...been having trouble keeping them on the backdrop!
LisaNeal:: we call'em Dulac Cowboy Boots
alycia:: melissa...i find gummies work well *S*
Christy:: Hey Melissa...didn't see you there.
lalac:: same ole white rubber boots I bet! hey I have been shrimping and flip flops dont cut it!!
sandra:: Eddie do you think that different parts of the country have different styles
alycia:: i have a few waterglobes and neat toys...if i'm getting face shots, i dont care what they are playing with.
Just Hatched Photography:: Hey Chris, nice to see ya
sandra:: like texas verses florida verses california
lalac:: one of my non-prop enticements is to ask them to tell me a story...
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Sandra...up north (at least from what I've seen) they don't understand how you let a child run barefoot in Sunday's best.
PosNeg:: black shoe polish always keeps a toddler entertained
sandra:: or is style universal and not geographical
alycia:: dave. you are bad.
Christy:: I run into moms from you know where that insist on telling there child to look at the camera and smile. I try and tell them it's okay, let them relax...so on
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: It's a southern thing. All the Mom's here (at least) have their little girls in dresses, barefoot.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Outdoors.
lalac:: YEP..why wear shoes...show those toes.
Audra6:: I hate it when the parents try to tell them how to act.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: You got it, Lala.
alycia:: i think i'm going to add a blurb on my website about not needing to tell them they will be in trouble and say cheese etc.
PosNeg:: don't most of you get rid of the parents?
Just Hatched Photography:: Oh Christy...already had that conversation
lalac:: at church the babies will be in $200 dresses but barefooted..with gold bracelet and pearl necklaces on..
Christy:: Dave...got any polish available?
Eddie Bonfigli:: One thing I used to do a lot, and still do at times, is take the photograph for the client in a way that when the result is printed, I would like it enough to hand in my own home, on my own walls. When I thought of it this way, I would proceed so much differently. Standards are suddenly higher. And you become much more alert for contrivedness, stiffness, and other elements.
lalac:: I get rid of parents..
PosNeg:: only hunter green christy
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Dave, yes. I get them to step away for a bit.
DBMichel:: I think different parts of the country do have different styles
Eddie Bonfigli:: hang
PosNeg:: once you get a rapport with the child...the parents need to go to another room
Just Hatched Photography:: yes dave, I tie them up in a tarp and shove them in the closet...no wait...that's what I'd LIKE to do
LisaNeal:: good tip Eddie
lalac:: Eddie, how funny...I do to.. and I hate when they don't purchase my personal favorite or when I get those 16x20's back to deliver and don't want to give them to the client!!!
Christy:: you guys have got to see my last family shoot involving a two year old. The Dad has his spanking spoon in his back pocket (I noticed later!!)!!
lalac:: I think they would look to good on my walls.
Eddie Bonfigli:: haha.
lalac:: christy..that is so bad...
sandra:: style isn't just the way you shoot its cropping size paper
PosNeg:: is the spoon for the kids or the wife?
Eddie Bonfigli:: Lalac, that' s great sign!
snapit:: Any suggestions to give parents when you are shooting outdoors. You really can't have them "leave the room"?
Julie:: my daughter would NEVER let me leave
dmireles2:: Lol dave
Christy:: I was ready to use it myself!!
Julie:: she would freak!!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Can I ask everyone...who are some of the photographers that inspired your 'style'?
lalac:: oh...I just tell them...here sit on this bench and rest..relax... let us go explore..see ya!
sandra:: adams
lalac:: you dorothy!!
PosNeg:: snapit...they need to be out of the child's view
Just Hatched Photography:: Alycia!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala, you're so sweet
lalac:: I had one mom stalk us..hide in the bushes..it was hysterical!
sandra:: rowen
lalac:: she just wanted to watch!
alycia:: what!?
alycia::
Just Hatched Photography:: Christy too...before she stopped posting!
dmireles2:: newman
snapit:: They all want to watch!!!
Christy:: what??
PosNeg:: Dean Collins for me Dorothy
Christy:: Eddie for me
Just Hatched Photography:: Inspired me.
Christy:: suckingup
Julie:: beat me to it!! I was going to say Eddie!!
PosNeg:: at least u admit it christy
sandra:: you kiss up
alycia:: oh, man..that is really nice. wow. thanks mel.
Christy:: whatever Melissa! You inspired me with your feet
Christy:: baby feet that is
Just Hatched Photography:: I would say, because I like to do babies, Anne Geddes but not all the dressed up like flowers ones...the simpler ones.
Eddie Bonfigli:: haha.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie is up there on my list...but I was one of those who LOVED the photos Linda McCartney used to get of the singers in the '60's. Big Hurrell fan too!! And he's studio!!!
lalac:: Eddie actually did inspire me...when I found ilp I was starting out..little did I know the site was somewhat new too..I couldnt believe I found someone/a site also that was doing what I wanted to do... I found it after I knew what I wanted to do...
Just Hatched Photography:: The smell of my feet?
sandra:: most of mine or journalists but yes a lot of people from this site
Christy:: goof
alycia:: my mom just gave me a wonderful book...it is actually by a photographer from my hometown...he is more traditional that i'd really like to be, but he is a role model on the business side for sure. he is very good...he signed it for me. there are several great photogs profiles in there.
PosNeg:: I need to buy eddie a drink later this week while i am in west palm
snapit:: Hey Dorothy I have some of Lin McCartney photobooks. Saw one of her exhibits too.
alycia:: it's called "the business of portrait photography" by tom mcdonald.
lalac:: yikes I need to mail Eddie an envelope I have on my desk.
alycia:: i've just started to read it, but i'm very impressed.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Nancy, can I come over?
snapit:: Sure!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I have two of her books...love 'em!!!
snapit:: Me too!
Just Hatched Photography:: Christy, I've got some new feet you'll have to see.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Dave, oh, are you having the model shoot this weekend? That sounded like a lot of fun.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I also have Julia Margaret Cameron's. George Hurrell's.
alycia:: (that was kind of along the lines of who inspired you).
lalac:: starting out I read Helen Boursier books... and I thought I like my shots better than hers... back to that style thing
Christy:: My customers have inspired me sooooooo much. All of my business is on referrals. They really pump me up!!
PosNeg:: no Eddie...this weekend I am meeting with a cruise line that wants me to do a 4 day fashion shoot while we cruise
Christy:: I need to see them M
sandra:: cool
PosNeg:: i will look you up...i will be in west palm thurs thru mon
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I used to LOVE sitting on the floor in my parents home as a child and look at all the black and whites in Life Magazine.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That was classic work!
snapit:: I'll have to check them out Dorothy! I
dmireles2:: true, dbc
Just Hatched Photography:: Chris...is your email the cox one?
lalac:: yep..I love old Life Magazines... and travel shots from National Geo.
lalac:: I also now like to look at Martha baby, Gap ads, tons of ads and watch what they are doing
snapit:: Love those life magazines. Especially the big ones. They are smaller now and its just not the same!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Dave, I see. Models...cruise ship...photography....Sounds like torture! haha.
Christy:: I was shooting a wedding a couple of weeks ago (all b&w) and they had the most beautiful portraits of their 3 girls in b&w on their walls. Very dramatic lighting and off center cropping. They were signed Willis.
Christy:: Yes M
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala...yes. There are some REALLY great photographs in that magazine.
PosNeg:: Come help Eddie....we'll bring a few kids along for ya
sandra:: dave tough life
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PosNeg:: Can I leave you all with something I heard a long time ago...very simple but very strong?
lalac:: sure..
sandra:: I have to go friends is coming on
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Eddie Bonfigli:: "Let us have it" Dave.
sandra:: see you all later
Christy:: It's not Thursday!
lalac:: dorothy you get kicked!
lalac:: nite sandra
PosNeg:: Anybody can take a photography of what someone looks like. A true photographer takes a photography of what someone IS like.
sandra:: no reruns how sad am I
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I know
Eddie Bonfigli:: Sandra, bye!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Did I miss anything?
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Bye Sandra!!
Christy:: good quote Dave
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Just Hatched Photography:: Chris...sent you an email
lalac:: that is what we strive to do! capture essence.. capture IT.. whatever their IT is!!!!
Christy:: cool...thanks!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Yes, very good.
dmireles2:: nice one, Dave
alycia:: nice dave.
PosNeg:: try to remember that when u shoot...get to know your subject
Just Hatched Photography:: Love that Dave...guess that is capturing someones essence
Just Hatched Photography:: hey lalac...great minds think alike!
lalac:: I was told last nite at a proof showing that I captured their daughters "sparkle" and no one had ever got it before..she is 13...
snapit:: That is a great thought to keep in mind when photographing a person, thanks Dave!
lalac:: jhp..yepper!
PosNeg:: and one more..Anyone can take a photograph that is different. Turn it upside down and it's different. Strive to take a photograph that INSPIRES
Christy:: Very nice M!!!
alycia:: here's a site w/ some great b/w photog
alycia:: http://www.waldensphotography.com/
Just Hatched Photography:: Thanks
lalac:: My philosophy is.. make a difference. Give them something that the mom loves and that when the children grow up they will steal and take with them as an adult.
Christy:: We just went over that last night at my monthly metro meeting for Pro photographers. Turn it upside down and see where your eye is drawn to see if it captures where your subject should be.
lalac:: give them something that I capture that they don't already have... or can't go get somewhere else.
Christy:: we had a critique session last night getting ready for State competition.
lalac:: left brain/right brain stuff.. very deep.
Just Hatched Photography:: I have a picture I took and every time I look at it my heart leaps and it isn't even my child....I would love to do that for everyone. I think it's a big deal that I create memories people will look back at years from now.
snapit:: Gotta go, Thanks everyone for your insight!!! nancy
lalac:: nite nancy
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Bye Nancy.
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Eddie Bonfigli:: Nancy, thank you for coming!
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lalac:: If I can make them tear up.. and give them something special I am pleased. I am more pleased than if they spend a fortune..because I know I truly gave them a treasure or a gift...not just sold them something.
Just Hatched Photography:: good point lala
Christy:: I would pretty much do anything for my clients. They know it and appreciate my love of the camera. It's more than a job for me. It's personal.
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lalac:: I guess I am blessed that I am not primary $$$ and I find joy doing this instead of a job it is a joy...
lalac:: your right..it is personal... that is a wonderful way to put it.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: That's why I do alot of my other photography. I just love doing 'my thing'. If someone wants to hire me, great. But it's for how I shoot.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I love photographing...that's it.
lalac:: that is they way you form your personal style..because you are wanting for them something special...
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Right...
Julie:: Lala, I like how you put that
lalac:: Yep..I have tons of travel photo's from all over the world...and I love them.. I wish I could let people see them..but they are my personal babies and not important to sell...
Christy:: well, I have a ton of work to do ...see ya'll later:) Night all.
Just Hatched Photography:: Night Christy
lalac:: nite christy.
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Dorothy Blum Cooper:: So Eddie, when should I separate the 'art' from technical of photography? Sometimes I feel if I get too technically involved during a session, I lose sight of what I'm really there for. Is there a 'happy' medium?
lalac:: I have a shoot tomorrow that is suppose to be a difficult little boy.. (per a friend of mine) ..total of 3 children...
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lalac:: I know that I won't let them make it difficult..so no stress..because I will capture what they are doing versus making them become what I want in the image.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala...I have a session Thursday afternoon, but may have to cancel. We've had so much rain (AGAIN) that the grounds are saturated.
lalac:: I had to cancel one today and resched for thursday because the ground is too wet from rain yesterday.
lalac:: I think I get your same rain storms!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Yes, Dorothy, there is a happy medium. You'll know when you've arrived when you don't think about technique very much. It's like cooking, you know the rules, you know not to let something burn, but you don't obsess over it.
Just Hatched Photography:: Great...i'm a lousy cook.
Julie:: I burned my dinner tonight!! Oh no...
Eddie Bonfigli:: I think technique mearly needs to be adequate.
Eddie Bonfigli:: haha!
Eddie Bonfigli:: You're in trouble Julie!
lalac:: great analogy...except I never use a recipe and always add extra ingredients and then never remember... hmmm
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I know we got pounded here last night.
Julie:: what can ya do!!
Just Hatched Photography:: goodnight all
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Wow, Eddie! Well said.
lalac:: fake it til you make it!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Is that how you spell mearly? Merely?
lalac:: nite!
lalac:: merely.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: When did you feel like you 'arrived' at your style, Eddie?
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lalac:: yeah Eddie, how long you been in business?
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lalac:: hi barb
Barbara:: hi all -- just dropping in for a few
dmireles2:: i'm outta here as well. need to get some dinner before i pass out...
lalac:: ok everyone... define your style... what do you think is your style???
Eddie Bonfigli:: Oh, Dorothy, I don't think I ever felt like my style arrived. I don't know if you'll feel that. You could...I don't know. I was referring to technique though...when you don't obsess over it it, that's when you'll give your full energy to self expression...I think.
dmireles2:: thanks to all for some great insight!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Good night, Delano!
alycia:: i think my style is a mess.
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lalac:: it is not, your nuts.
alycia:: but i'm working on that *S*
alycia:: well...i'm torn sometimes between the parent that *loves* props....
alycia:: and the ones that say "none".
alycia:: i like the latter.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: OH Alycia...you do have your own 'look'. It's great!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: It's your 'style'.
lalac:: I like "SIMPLE, UNCLUTTERED, TIGHT FACE SHOTS, AND CASUAL IMAGES"
alycia:: well, thanks dorothy and lala....
briteideasphoto:: ok I really am back now :) I was back but then the phone rang!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Eddie...I guess that's what I meant. When did you feel comfortable with your work.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, ah, well, it's a positive thing that you acknowledge that. You're still evolving, I think.
alycia:: me too lala...
lalac:: I said I like..not necessarily my style... I strive for those achievements.
alycia:: eddie...yea..i guess i'd have to just throw out all my goodies *S*
alycia:: and say i'm propless...tho, i guess i still kinda like a prop or two.
alycia:: sometimes.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I tell my kids that all the time. I don't believe you ever 'learn it all'. You're always evolving.
lalac:: get rid of those water globes, oh no!
alycia:: no way. the waterglobes stay.
lalac:: change is good!
alycia:: they are actually *in* some of the laps when i get those face shots *S*
lalac:: I would say my props are the backgrounds of the locations I go to.
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alycia:: i have to say tho...i like the comfort of my little studio.
briteideasphoto:: i like a few props, just not overpowering
alycia:: i know many of you like the outdoors, but that lighting and metering drives me kinda crazy.
lalac:: If the parent has no idea I suggest locations based on the type of clothing they will be wearing or the idea of the child the parent has given me...so the environment is my prop.
alycia:: i've done several outdoors shots
alycia:: lately and it's wearing me out.
briteideasphoto:: i did my first outdoor shoot this weekend. learned a lot, learned that I like my controllable studio
Eddie Bonfigli:: Dorothy, hmmm, comfortable is a really interesting word for you to have used! I have gone through short periods of feeling comfortable.....but they don't last. Thankfully. You're always striving to go outside yourself.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Oh tell me!!!!!!!!!!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Bobby says I'm TOO hard on myself.
lalac:: see I feel comfortable outside..and freak out or get nerves shooting inside..
Barbara:: I don't know if everyone feels this way, but I know my couple of outdoor locations really well and I know the lighting and time of day
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: But I want to know everything I can about something.
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lalac:: yep Barb..me too..I have favorite locations that are great for me.
briteideasphoto:: this shot was 3 hours from home at my aunt's. gorgeous location.... but I was very nervous about lighting
alycia:: i think if i did them more often, i would get more comfortable....like studio, i guess (hated those babies at first too!)
briteideasphoto:: i hit it right about half the time
alycia:: (the lights, not real babies *S*)
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Alycia...I'm totally hooked on the metering and lighting technique that Eddie and I chatted about a couple of years ago.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Remember that chat Eddie? I read it 100 times.
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mike les:: hi all
lalac:: hi mike
alycia:: dorothy...do you always use manual outdoors?
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Now I get to a point I can guess the readings and pretty much be on.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Alycia...yes. All manual.
briteideasphoto:: i would really like to find a few good locations around here but I'm still scouting.... how do you go about finding a really good location?
mike les:: forgot chat does not like OS X and AOL X
alycia:: yea, i have to w/ the digital. i used to meter then settle for the AV (shame shame!) but you cant really do that w/ my D60. too dark most times.
alycia:: times
Eddie Bonfigli:: Barbara, I feel that way too. I think that that very familiar shooting place can be used to your advantage....you are honing your technique when you shoot a lot in a controlled or familiar place. It's good. Just remember to change a little down the road.
briteideasphoto:: and I don't have a meter yet so I get really nervous....
alycia:: hi mike les.
lalac:: check local college campus, local resort hotels, local church areas, parks, gardens,
Barbara:: 2 things for locations -- good lighting and good backgrounds
briteideasphoto:: I need to check out OU....
Barbara:: my favorite park actually has crappy lighting in some of the prettiest places
mike les:: what's hot tonight
lalac:: personal style
mike les:: tonite I mean
lalac:: that is it.. discussing your style..what is your style?
Eddie Bonfigli:: It's good to get to know one shooting place really well, just like it's good to get to know one film very well...inside out.
lalac:: brite .. I even have done a shoot on railroad tracks.... it is just what you see when you look around
mike les:: no sorting for me tonite Pictage is down...
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Barbara:: I agree Eddie -- I have one spot in front of an old barn that is my favorite place -- parents don't seem impressed when they walk up, but they always like the shots there
DBMichel:: I found a great park along the river. It has several lagoons so I can get the water in whatever direction I need, depending on the time of day.
Eddie Bonfigli:: If there are too many variable changing, if you feel uncomfortable with a new location each time, you may inhibit your real photography from coming out....because you're too busy sizing up the location......assimilating the variables and reacting to them, instead of creating.
mike les:: I have a few good places near me .I have to get the times down.
briteideasphoto:: what is required though, when finding a good location, where property ownership is concerned? do you ask the owners to sign a release if it is privately owned? or what about a university... is that public property?
lalac:: I focus on the children/child so I don't need large expanses of background.. I do have a location with great avenue of old oak trees (kinda like Oak Alley)...I use it alot.
mike les:: I love the fall and all the leaves
mike les:: hear in Philly
Barbara:: d, the lagoons would be great -- I've actually set up my tripod in a goldfish pond so I could get the right angle with water -- freaks the clients out!
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I wish we HAD fall here.
lalac:: I also go to playgrounds..they always have great swings,slides and usually flora/fauna
Barbara:: Dorothy -- me too!!
DBMichel:: yes, at one spot I can go across the water and shoot with the beach in front
lalac:: hey..I saw red leaves on one tree today!!
lalac:: thats fall.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Brite, are you talking client portraiture, or selling prints to other than clients?
Barbara:: lala, where are you?
lalac:: mobile, ala
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Barbara...at least you all have all those gorgeous Bluebonnets.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Talk about beautiful!
mike les:: I love the leaves on the ground I hate when people rake them up. It's sad
briteideasphoto:: client portraiture. for example we found this great barn with old wagon wheels, etc... to take pictures this weekend
lalac:: ooh texas..those are stunning
Barbara:: Yeah, but I was on vacation during bb season this year!!
lalac:: another location I found was a cotton field behind my sisters house..very cool old world looking shots
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Lala...I bet that does look great.
briteideasphoto:: we got permission from the restaurant on the property to photograph there for that weekend, but if I wanted to take clients there frequently what would I do?
lalac:: done in sepia..really neat
Barbara:: sounds very cool lala
LisaNeal:: brite - thanks for bringing up this topic --- I've been having the same thing on my mind
lalac:: one of my comments to parents is that I want to focus on the child..that child..their child.. then see their clothing...then see the background... If you see the background in the image first then I failed.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Brite, personally, I take a low key approach. I shoot at a location as long as it works and no one complains. If someone complains, that's when I shift gears. If that wagon wheel has been abandoned, I wouldn't worry about it appearing in your client portraits. Unless you know of a way that it would bother someone.
lalac:: I don't want a shot of a kid in a beautiful strausburg smocked gown... I want their joyous dazzling child in a pretty dress!
briteideasphoto:: That's kind of what I thought...
lalac:: I don't cause a big deal either...if you are respectful of property and not cause interruptions to others...then I don't go searching for permission...
briteideasphoto:: the wheel was actually a whole axle and the wheels were about 4' tall behind a red barn. it was perfect.... i wish it wasn't 3 hours away
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Barbara:: lala, I agree, but those strasburg gowns are just gorgeous!!
briteideasphoto:: I'm going to post the best pic later in the color forum
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: Love those dresses!! Strausburg.
lalac:: yep..but I want it to be their child not a card for a dress ad..ya know.
Barbara:: One thing about locations is that some parks require a fee for usage -- just be aware of that
lalac:: do you guys have botanical gardens, or garden clubs that have areas in parks locally?
Barbara:: The LBJ Wildflower Center here is just absolutely gorgeous, but its a $500 yearly fee
lalac:: 500 for a yearly pass..wow!
alycia:: um...gabriela wore strasbourg for eddie's shoot *S*
briteideasphoto:: we have a beautiful garden in downtown OKC
Barbara:: We have some other botanical gardens that I (and every other photog in town) use!!
alycia:: but it wasnt fancy shmancy.
alycia::
briteideasphoto:: lots of wedding pics are done there...
lalac:: yeah barb,, but they don't shoot with your same style..remember..
Barbara:: That's true!! Except Lesley freeman -- we ran into each other at the park this weekend. Kind of funny to see!
lalac:: and brite..same thing.. you can make it different.
lalac:: thats ok...I went to a beach and did a shoot..and another family and photographer were there... the mom was screaming at the kids and he was making the kids pretend to walk on the beach.
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Barbara:: A -- I hope your kids were in better moods than mine were for Eddie's shoot! Mine were such pains that day -- too much vacation!
lalac:: I mean pretend to walk? I just watched and shook my heads..those kids were miserable..and mine were swimming in the gulf!!!
alycia:: well, my 6yo just wanted to play in the water. 2yo was okay *S*
alycia:: he was happy when i let him take off his shirt and play.
briteideasphoto:: hate it when the moms get ugly. i actually had a mom tell her 9 yr old daughter "you're really pi**ing me off" at a Halloween shoot I did!
briteideasphoto:: yeah, that helps her relax so I can get a good picture
alycia:: i love it when "dad" has to take them out to "talk".....ugh.
lalac:: that would tick me off... I had a mom yell at her son "ALL I WANT IS ONE PICTURE, ONE! ONE FOR THE CHRISTMAS CARD..CAN YOU DO THIS???"
Eddie Bonfigli:: Haha.
Barbara:: I usually love it when dads come along -- they seem to make the moms lighten up
lalac:: I made her leave and we took a shot with him sticking his tongue out..how is that for disrespectful!
alycia:: i usually try to chill out then and then try to talk to them and put the camera down for a bit.
Barbara:: heehee!!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Last Sunday, the three kids I photographed Grand Prix Wrestled for nearly the entire shoot. Not kidding.
lalac:: then witchy didnt order any shots..she was riding the coat tails of a grandmother doing all the grandchildren shoot.
alycia:: eddie, lots of people have asked if i learned from you, but honestly...i think alot i learned about was being a *client*...this was the first time since opening my own business....good lessons there. (learned, i'm much happier on *my* side of the camera! haha!)
mike les:: had a bride one time say moments before going down the isle Daddy I think I'm going to throw up
Barbara:: I hate it when the moms are really trying to get them to be all smiley! I'm just not a smiley photog -- maybe that's my style?
lalac:: yeah Eddie, but those would be personality shots..that is what they do...if they sat still and looked angelic it wouldnt be those kids.
mike les:: the mom ran over and said you will not thow up!!!
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mike les:: I thought great just refuse to let her that will help!!! NOT!
DBMichel:: It's my dads are usually the ones that stand back and tell the children to say "cheese"
alycia:: i have a client right now who wants these *perfect* pictures of her son...he is cute, but two ...very TWO.... he sat there w/ his mouth gaping or chomping on my gummies.
alycia:: very few smiles.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, right! Let's stick to the backside of the camera!
alycia:: i got a few nice solemn looks out of him, but i think she envisioned something else...but he is not a smiley child.
Dorothy Blum Cooper:: I have to get going. Got an early day. Thanks so much for all of your insight on this. Eddie, thanks for being here.
lalac:: I took tons of a 2 yr old eating cookies..cutest thing...and that was him... all his expressions
DBMichel:: goodnight D
mike les:: doesn't matter how old you get parents can still be uptight
alycia:: i tried to explain that you want to capture *him*...not who you'd like him to be (didnt really say it like that)
lalac:: nite D.
Barbara:: I think in reality, most kids aren't really smiley all the time
Barbara:: bye, d
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alycia:: i think it leaves you wondering more when they have a different look than that "smile"...
alycia:: my dd makes this horrendous "posed" smile lately. ugh.
alycia:: true, eddie...ha
mike les:: trying figure out how to torture my kids for the card this year
Barbara:: yeah, once they hit 4 or 5, the smiles are fake!
alycia:: barb...mine is just 2. she's trained *S*
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, yes, I know what you mean about that smile. And in a way, that's her too!
lalac:: I try to motivate them to actually laugh and get that shot..then get a serious pensive shot..and ask them to tell me joke..it always cracks them up.
alycia:: that's true, eddie...for now, it is..she says "i want pitch-er pleeeeeeseeee" in the studio *S*
alycia:: she looks like she's in pain.
alycia:: funny tho. stinker.
Eddie Bonfigli:: haha, yes!
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Barbara:: she's a cutie, though!
mike les:: I can usually get the smaller kids to lighten up or ask them questions to shoot when they are thinking or explaining
lalac:: ha.. I always say pizza after they say cheese...and they giggle..
alycia:: i've learned a few knock knock jokes for the older ones.
mike les:: The hardest ones for me are the teen agers
alycia:: they are pretty bad tho.
alycia:: the jokes....
alycia:: thanks barb.
briteideasphoto:: ok I posted that pic of the barn... i was so nervous about a family shoot that I was happy this one turned out good (besides the goofy 3 yo)
Eddie Bonfigli:: Mike, that's a good strategy.
Julie:: gotta run too, didn't realize how late it was. Nite all!
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alycia:: mike...me too...i feel like such an old dork.
mike les:: I just try what works with mine.
alycia:: i try to talk to them about sports or whatever....
lalac:: teens just like to be treated like adults instead of like kids...so I just talk normal ..and ask what they want to do..find common ground
alycia:: i like to ask the 9ish age if they have a wife yet. that always gets a good chuckle.
mike les:: hard to get over the fact that I'm the dork mom hired to ruin their day...
Eddie Bonfigli:: A lot of times, I'll tell the child that I'm going to shoot when I count to three, and not to smile till I get to three. So I start counting slowly....and shooting all the while...When I get to 3 I sorta don't know what to do! haha.
lalac:: thats true..or shot on 4 when they stop smiling.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Waste a frame or two?
mike les:: Greta idea. I do that with grooms too
alycia:: i also do this game "you better not smile" for the 5ish age...they just cant help themselves and start giggling.
lalac:: I had a silly girl and had her do her tricks... she could do this belly flop thing...
briteideasphoto:: my 4 yo loves that "you better not...." game
Barbara:: A, I do that too! Works pretty well
lalac:: made her happy I photographed it... then I had her stand on one leg and try to kick like karate kid... so funny she was rolling on the ground laughing
alycia:: i have to say, that one thing i love about digital is that i can take all *their* shots and then mine!
briteideasphoto:: they also love when I ask if daddy has stinky feet
mike les:: Once you cross the line to silly you don't have very long till they get too silly
alycia:: the little girl from last week, charl...what a character!
Barbara:: Also, my dtr wants to be an actress, so we practice certain faces. Her "wonderful" face is best one. Everything else is cheesy!
alycia:: she wanted weird stuff in her portraits.
lalac:: meanwhile she is yelling "haaaaaaaaaaj=ya!"
alycia:: i agreed and then said okay, now my turn for a shot.
lalac:: barb, ask her to do expressions.. happy, sad, in trouble, goofy, etc etc..
mike les:: I really want the card this year to be all b&w...
mike les:: trying to do it early for once...
lalac:: are you still working on your Christmas image..?
briteideasphoto:: what do you all do for your own family portraits? do you try the timed thing or do you have someone else snap the shutter?
alycia:: last year i just had my kiddos.
briteideasphoto:: i tried having my mom do it but the pictures ended up all wrong
Barbara:: Who did that "better not pout" card? I think that's going to be the one I'll go with. I know I can p*ss them off bad enough to get that expression!
lalac:: I have my dog as card every year
alycia:: i think it was marissa.
lalac:: haha
briteideasphoto:: lol she's so farsighted in her old age (48) that she couldn't see in the viewfinder very well
alycia:: lala...do you have any children? i cant remember...
lalac:: nope..just 9yr old black lab ..
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alycia:: ah, that's a baby.
lalac:: tons of nieces, nephews, godchildren...
alycia:: hey minda!
lalac:: hey minda
Minda:: hi alycia! and lala
briteideasphoto:: lala have any good ideas for photog a dog? I have a christmas shoot with just a basset next weekend....
alycia:: lala..thats good b/c you can give them back *S*
Barbara:: Lesley F and I are trading family shoots -- I've done hers now she owes me! Gotta wait until Dec now
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lalac:: yep..I do...and I am in love with my friends 5 mo old..she is the pencil technique I just tried that I posted...
Minda:: Hi Tara
lalac:: I am teaching her lala... lala... before da-da..hahaha
Tara:: Hi...just wandered in, here to listen
alycia:: hey tara....
lalac:: oh yeah..tons of great dog shots.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Hey, I wanted to share something that I've heard other photogs mention, but that I'm just now really really starting to learn/realize lately: Kids are so much better to work with when they've had a mellow day the day BEFORE, and the day OF the photo session. If they've been rowdy the day or night before, or the while just before the shoot, they will be very difficult to work with...often they will be too excited, too rambunctious. I've had several shoots in a row know where this has come to light. I'm going to be using this info more now. Just thought I'd share.
Tara:: That def makes a lot of sense
Tara:: knowing my own kids
lalac:: eddie, always check when their nap times or downtimes are...
alycia:: how will you use this eddie? will you suggest a calm day prior? do you do most of your shoots in the AM?
Minda:: Show how do you schedule around that?
briteideasphoto:: she's spoiled rotten :) her mommy took her shopping at petsmart for a new collar and some new toys lol
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lalac:: ok...email me...lalacourtney@yahoo.com I will pull some images of dogs up!
briteideasphoto:: ohhh! that would be great! Thanks!
Eddie Bonfigli:: Lala, yes, always have done that. I'm just discovering the effects of activity of the kids day before and day of. So important.
lalac:: I have a new one of three labs.. a yellow, black and chocolate lab....
alycia:: minda....i did another outdoor shoot this afternoon. you should be proud *G* (i laughed at your comment btw!)
lalac:: yeah..tell them no sugar or candy!!
alycia:: should
Tara:: i love your outdoor stuff A
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, I do every shoot in the AM. Yes, I will suggest calm day before and calm hours just before shoot.
Barbara:: speaking of dogs, I just did a shoot with a 1 yo and an English bulldog -- hilarious!!!!
Minda:: good for you!!!
Tara:: i like the AM too
alycia:: eddie...what do you do during the school year? weekends?
alycia:: or just young kiddos during week.
alycia:: or those playing hookey on vacation, like us? *S*
lalac:: with daylight savings I have them get out of school a little early for weekday shots.
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, yes, weekends, and, my clients are often younger than school age, so moms can do week days very often.
alycia:: thanks tara...it's fun, but it's out of my comfort zone, but i guess that's good.
alycia:: eddie, yea...i'd love to do those all younger than school age. works w/ my schedule *S* plus they are so fun!
mdporter:: I miss my bulldog :-(
Minda:: I wish I was as comfortable in the studio as you are alycia
Minda:: I don't know how you do it!
alycia:: minda...ahhh...that grass is always greener!
Tara:: i would feel so stifled indoors i think
lalac:: I have been scheduling more on weekdays ...and saving Saturdays for hafta's.. I have to because they can't other times...
Eddie Bonfigli:: Minda, what's the hard part about studio.....fess up!
Tara:: well, i know i feel stifled
Minda:: I feel confined - the four wall thing!!!
Tara:: me too
Eddie Bonfigli:: Oh.
Tara:: i feel like there is less of a chance of getting the 'true spirit'
alycia:: yea, i see that....
Minda:: I am actually more comfortable technically, eddie. thanks to you!
Tara:: because they cant just roam
lalac:: I like that outdoors thing too..but my town has tons of studios..so I distinguish myself as natural light on location
Minda:: i had a great indoor maternity shoot last week - alot of fun
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Barbara:: I've got to go guys! Thanks!
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alycia:: i think i get alot of personality tho. not as *free*, but i get them talking and expressing.
Tara:: my husband is hollering at me to go to bed
Tara:: im sick
Minda:: will post as soon as I get her permission (forgot to get it that day)
Tara:: i should really go to bed
lalac:: nite barb..love to see that shot of bulldog and child
Tara::
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alycia:: tara..it's 9PM!
alycia:: i dont see bed until laaaaaattttte!
lalac:: haha..my hubby is not home..haha
Tara:: he is up watching the lakers
Tara:: i just need to go to bed
Minda:: you do a good job alycia!
alycia:: thanks minda...
Tara:: i came upstairs to do just that, and got sucked in to the computer
alycia:: computers do that. i tried to tell my dh..he didnt believe me *S*
Minda:: I need to get my kids to bed!
Tara:: haha
Tara:: they do indeed!
alycia:: i need to work on a million things.
alycia:: someone slap me come next november.
alycia:: i dont know what i did to myself.
alycia:: ugh.
mike les:: did a shoot last nite for a clients x-mas card they always have an art director
briteideasphoto:: me too... i need to finish this bits and pieces thing i've been working for
lalac:: Alycia what is your cutoff date?
lalac:: I love your bits and pieces..too cute,.
alycia:: friday before thanksgiving (i know...slap me hard)
briteideasphoto:: lol who started that anyway..... now I had to do one of my 1 yr old
Tara:: marissa
mike les:: great idea this year and they have it printed on printing press. usually about 2000 copies
briteideasphoto:: i almost have it done....
lalac:: I got a flyer in the mail today from General Product that has frames for bits and pieces.
alycia:: i still have shoots in december but no xmas guarantee.
briteideasphoto:: really? is it reasonable?
Eddie Bonfigli:: Alycia, is it the digital part of it that is taxing? Or would you have an equally daunting time of it even if you were film? Just curious.
lalac:: 2000 copies..good lordy lord
alycia:: gnp has a 9 image frame.
briteideasphoto:: i need to get a catalog from them
alycia:: eddie...no, it's the digita.
alycia:: digital.
briteideasphoto:: that's what my b&p has 9 images
Tara:: night kids
Tara:: see you on the board!
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alycia:: but i really like having the control to crop and *fix* minor things so i dont bail on it.
mike les:: 2000 just close friends
alycia:: i probably should have for november.
Eddie Bonfigli:: A, right.
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lalac:: nite tara
alycia:: eddie...you are really kind of a happy medium, right? you scan and then print your negs?
Minda:: I have a question - if you have a wall a off white vs. a muslin curtain hanging, would light bounce from both of these surfaces the same?
lalac:: general products 800-888-1934 www.gpalbums.com
alycia:: plus, i dont charge enough for my sitting ($50...crazy..i just break even)....so i like being able to shoot until my hearts content.
briteideasphoto:: thanks lala! you've been a big help tonight!
lalac:: your mucho welcome-o
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Eddie Bonfigli:: A, I digitally fix very few images so far. But, each time I do it, I see the advantages. So, I do think digital capture is coming down the road. I only scan and improve when the image or client suggests it.
alycia:: minda...i am not sure. i have lt purple walls...i just meter it when i change backdrops to see what it's doing.
Minda:: alycia, do you have the d60 or d30?
alycia:: D60
Minda:: is your studio walls purple?
alycia:: eddie...i know i dont *have* to do it...but i always fix bumps and bruises and sometimes bags under eyes if they are bad. for moms w/ a few wrinkles i do a soft gaussian blur here and there. it takes some time, but i think it helps me in the end....either that or i'm insane *S*
alycia:: minda...yes.
alycia:: lt.purple.
mike les:: I like the Fuji S-2 because I don't have to tweak every image most are great right out of the camera
Minda:: I only use the one light and a reflector, I would think the light wall helps bounce some light in addition to the reflector? But maybe the wall, being 4 or 5 feet away doesn't come into play anyway
alycia:: not by design...it was my dd's room before it was a studio.
lalac:: I touch up some..but very little ..
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lalac:: I have the S1 and love it too..
alycia:: lala...do you do much cropping?
mike les:: I will spend the time fixing up the ones they want but the proofs have to look real nice without playing with them
briteideasphoto:: I'm planning on getting the S2 before long if I can swing it.
lalac:: more and more..yeah...I like to crop in how I want the image to be...
alycia:: i guess one thing i do is that i leave room for enlargements, but then crop the *proof* how i want it to look.
alycia:: that takes the time.
lalac:: I usually crop so that the image I show them is standard..but then I push square sizes or odd sizes
Minda:: alycia, does miller's print your b&w? (I asked you this before - can't remember, sorry!)
lalac:: I try to compliment the image instead of fitting the image to 8x10 size.
Minda:: you adjust the curves, then upload?
lalac:: I love doing 5x5, 8x8 and 10x10's...
Minda:: me too lala
Minda:: I sell a fair amount of them
alycia:: minda...yes...i do all the conversion
alycia:: then upload. i have them do it w/ no corrections.
Minda:: so the b/w are on the color paper
lalac:: I sell a square almost every time..
alycia:: fuji crystal archive for proofs.
alycia:: and kodak something (?) for orders
Minda:: have you noticed how many square frames are available?
alycia:: i do tons of squares.
briteideasphoto:: i love square pics but have been hesitant to offer them thinking people will not buy because it's harder to find frames
alycia:: i sell gnp frames.
lalac:: you dont have fuji crystal for images...I love that paper.
alycia:: i sell tons of them.
Minda:: they are everywhere around here.
mike les:: I love squares too. reminds me of shooting the Hasselblad
briteideasphoto:: really? Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
alycia:: dh says he's going to leave the military and be my assistant and framer *S*
briteideasphoto:: my mom is going to go into custom framing to compliment my business lol
mdporter:: Aaron Brothers carries squares
Minda:: lol, alycia
lalac:: even kmart now sells square frames..martha stewart collection 12.99 and they have mats cut for 5x7 in them.. you could have a mat cut to square to fit..cheap frames
alycia:: minda...he scares me b/c he's kinda serious...haha!
mdporter:: I refuse to buy anything with Matha's name on it.
Minda:: when my husband starts reading books on marketing photography I get really scared!!!
Minda: he has been out of work for 14 months - surprised he hasn't started framing for me
alycia: i love the digital for the cropping and squares. dont have to pay custom and dont have to be sick to my stomach wondering if they did it right.
briteideasphoto: dh is reading over my shoulder and he says he wants to do this with me full time too

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